Talk:Ä

Use in the 16th century in German

This seems to describe that the ä or some form of it, such as with the little e above the letter, has always been in use and distinguished in writing from e, however the texts I have read from the 16th. century all seem to use e instead of ä. In fact it doesn't seem that the letter ä existed at all, at least in the few things I've read from that century. I'm not sure whether the e would be considered an obsolete form of this letter then, which is why I didn't add that now, but this should be clarified and explained in the article. Eric Schiefelbein (talk) 08:43, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

It is a mystery to me how you gathered this from the text when it says exactly the opposite: "From Alemannic Middle High German aͤ, a representation of secondary umlaut [æ]. In Early Modern German, the letter spread to Central German." So this passage (which was already the same in April 2023) clearly states that in Middle High German the letter was restricted to Alemannic and that it spread northward only in Early Modern German, i.e. the 15th to 17th centuries. -- By the 16th century usage was mixed. I think that aͤ was already predominant, but you're right that e was still widely used. 90.186.83.227 21:51, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Analogy and the difference between MHG and MSG systems

We say: "Through open-syllable lengthening, mergers, and analogy, this [MHG] system was not just reduced but entirely altered." I want to add here a little note to this, because it is sometimes falsely claimed that the use of /ɛː/ for umlaut in Modern German is purely spelling pronunciation.

It is true that primary umlaut of short /a/ was /e/ in (early) MHG, accordingly we should expect modern /eː/ in lengthened syllables. However, this is where analogy comes into play, which has worked in various dialects to make /ɛː/ the umlaut vowel. The specifics vary greatly, but just for illustration take the following example: The umlaut of MHG long /aː/ was /ɛː/, so when short /a/ was lengthened and (as it did in many, though not all dialects) merged with original /aː/, this merged vowel - depending on its etymology in a given case - could umlaut to /ɛː/ or /eː/. Such variation has been preserved in some dialects, but in many others it was removed by analogy and the shift has almost invariably been towards the more open vowel, i.e. that which is closer to /aː/ itself.

So this is a natural development that we see in several dialects and which, in MSG, may have been reinforced but certainly not created by the spelling. What is indeed spelling pronunciation in MSG is not so much the use of /ɛː/ for ⟨ä⟩, but the use of /eː/ for ⟨e⟩ in words where it corresponds to MHG ë. As mentioned, this is a recent development mainly due to the influence of Siebs (although there were probably some speakers who had developed this habit of pronunciation already before Siebs). 2.207.102.157 12:45, 12 August 2025 (UTC)