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April 2

English time expressions

Does English say "at three on Thursday night" to mean a time at 03:00 on Thursday? In Finnish, it is "kello kolme torstaiyönä". And does English say "at eleven in yesterday evening"? --40bus (talk) 05:24, 2 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

For the first, the usual expression is "at three on Thursday morning". For the second, the phrase is "at eleven yesterday night", without "in". ‑‑Lambiam 08:02, 2 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Is 23:00 ever referred to as "evening"? Are "yesterday evening" and "tomorrow evening" ever used? --40bus (talk) 08:35, 2 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I guess if you're formal at these things then you'd classify 11pm as "night". But it also depends on perspective, at 11 at night you go to sleep but if you're a night owl (and e.g. in Spain which is quite far West for its time zone) you might start your journey to the disco at 11 in the evening.

We're really looking forward to the release date of 40bus' 2000-page Compendium on the Subtleties and Nuances of Expressing Times in the English Language (with some Comparisons to the Finnish Language). We're sure you're up to something highly sophisticated. -- 10:33, 2 April 2026 (UTC) Jungleman33 (talk) 10:33, 2 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I think most normal people would classify 23:00 as night.

Yes, "yesterday evening" and "tomorrow evening" are in common use.

The question of the hours after midnight is a bit of a grey area; the phrase "during the night" would probably be taken to mean during the hours of darkness, but a specific time after midnight would be said to be morning or a.m. In the UK, the Scottish expression, "the wee small hours" is sometimes used for the time between midnight and dawn. Alansplodge (talk) 11:34, 2 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

If there's still a remnant of twilight left at 23:00, and I hadn't gone to bed, then I'd say that's "evening". The article on "evening" is suitably vague on the issue. Bazza 7 (talk) 13:07, 2 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

All this stuff is contextual. For most people in most circumstances, 11 PM would be considered "night", but if you said, "yesterday evening at 11...", it would be understood without ambiguity. If you were at a party from 7 PM to 11 PM, you could easily say, "I was at a party from 7 to 11 yesterday evening." On the other hand, if you went to bed at 9 PM and the neighbour's dog awoke you at 11 PM, you'd complain "That goddam mutt woke me up in the middle of the night last night!" Matt Deres (talk) 13:26, 2 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I think that evening is from 17:00 to midnight, and night from midnight to 6:00. In Finnish, times from about 1:00 to 5:00 can be either kello yksi...viisi yöllä or kello yksi...viisi aamulla. Iltayö or alkuyö is around midnight and aamuyö or loppuyö is around 5:00. Does English say early night or late night for these two times? --40bus (talk) 14:28, 2 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

'Early night' is not a stock term in BrE, although if used it would be understood as the first few hours after dusk had ended, which would vary depending on the time of year.

'Late night' usually refers to the period around an hour or so before and after midnight. Back in the days of printed newspapers with several editions each day, the last one of the day was sometimes called the 'late night final' (and the earliest editions dated as the next day would begin to hit the streets in, for example, London, before midnight).

Typically in English, the same word or phrase can often mean two or more different things in different circumstances, and only someone very familiar with the cultural contexts can navigate them with surety. ~2026-76101-8 (talk) 16:50, 2 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

To me, evening is from about 18:00 to maybe 21:00. But all this stuff is subjective. If I'm asleep, 3:00 AM is the middle of the night, but I'm awake at the time, I'd call it a very early morning. In English, the times of the day aren't 100% independent of our personal relationship with them. It's a bit like asking if $30 is a lot of money or if 6 km is a long distance. Matt Deres (talk) 18:45, 2 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I'd expect evening to last at least until sunset, which could be well past 21:00, and morning to start at the latest at sunrise. Finland is quite far North, so they may have midnight sun, when evening turns straight into morning, skipping the night. PiusImpavidus (talk) 09:06, 3 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose 40bus sees Finnish as a most perfect language and is frequently perplexed when "English says" things in another way. When you place a question to the English-speakers asking what they are going to do "tonight", they might go out to see a show, but in Finnish the word for night is much more restricted in meaning and there is not much else to do than sleep or to extend the yesterday-begun evening into the pre-morning. I think 40bus is trying to learn (or discover) more English but is incapable of letting go of the mother tongue. --Pxos (talk) 20:13, 2 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

English is always evolving. It's never Finnished. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:44, 3 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

We used to get more comparative questions, comparing different Germanic languages, which could be quite interesting. English of course is the oddball amongst the Germanic languages. But I understand many get a bit bored by these somewhat repetitive questions on English idiom. PiusImpavidus (talk) 08:47, 3 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't consider the comparative aspect of this R/desk at all, I only thought about the superfluotives. --Pxos (talk) 09:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

"Three on Thursday night" would suggest to me "three on Friday morning", but I'd know it was a foreigner saying it. DuncanHill (talk) 23:18, 2 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Chances are this foreigner meant Thursday at 3:00 hours, being in the night from Wednesday to Thursday. PiusImpavidus (talk) 08:53, 3 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

There is a phrase in both Finnish and Swedish for telling which night it is: "torstain vastainen yö / natten mot torsdag". The translation is a bit funny: "the night against Thursday". The Swedish preposition mot might have something to do with the word "meet", so the nameless Nordic night (after Wedne's day) meets the following day that lends it its name. --Pxos (talk) 09:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Mot might mean both "against" and "towards" depending on situation. An even stranger Swedish phrasing is the clock usage tio i två ("ten to two", lit. "ten in two"), I wonder if it's due to Low German influence, since in German, in can occasionally mean "towards". 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 11:40, 3 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Cf. "kasta någon i gatan", "vägen går i norr". So the preposition "i" even in Swedish may not always imply penetrating the target or being inside it, I suppose. --Pxos (talk) 13:13, 3 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I would interpret the first example as "throwing someone into the street", which makes semantic sense, and the second example sounds dialectal or non-standard. To me, a more natural phrasing would be "vägen går mot norr" or "vägen går norrut" (where -ut literally means -out, but as an affix is similar to -ward(s) ). As for the clock usage, I think Danish and Norwegian are even stranger, as the phrasing there is ti på to ("ten on two", since if you put ten more on something, it naturally gets smaller...) 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 16:15, 3 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

In Finnish, it's kymmentä vailla kaksi so the [2nd?] hour [after noon] is lacking 10 minutes until it will be completed. As the preposition på is a really a combination of up and å, it is "ten upon two" in Danish-Norwich, "ten in two" in Swedish, and "ten short of two" in Finnish. Do we need a stand-up mathematician here? --Pxos (talk) 16:52, 3 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

WHAAOE, almost. See Mathematical joke. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2026-76101-8 (talk) 11:30, 5 April 2026 (UTC) [reply]

That one population sign is funny, except they forgot to include the numbers of apples and oranges. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:08, 5 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Bugs, check out the population sign in this image from the 1980s Transformers cartoon. This "joke" led to Casey Kasem quitting the show. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 16:00, 8 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

It seems as if you forgot a link to a screenshot. Anyway, I remember Kasem was of Arabian heritage, so he was always sensitive about anti-Arab sentiments and stereotypes. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 23:17, 8 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Carbombya Yep, I messed it up somehow. The image in this tfwiki article. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 17:53, 13 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

[2] 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 12:37, 15 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

April 5

When does syllable-initial N get restored?

When Korean borrowed words from Chinese, and those words in the original Chinese start with an N sound followed by the vowel I or a Y-glide, Korean cuts off the initial N. For example, the Early Middle Chinese words for two(二), person(人) and sun/day(日) are all reconstructed as beginning with an NY-like sound, and have the nasal part fall off in Korean and become 이,인, and 일 respectively.

Since this rule is about not letting words start with this sound, there are instances where a root that starts with this sound is allowed to keep its initial N element if it isn’t at the beginning of a word. For example, the root 女/녀 for female-related things loses its N in 여자, but keeps it in 그녀 where it doesn’t start the word. (Roots starting with R can also get their R back if they don’t start a word, such as “future” being 미래.) However, there are also many instances where the initial N is not restored in such places. For example, the number 12 is 십이 and not 십니, “tomorrow” is 내일 and not 내닐, “every day” is 매일 and not 매닐, days of the week are suffixed with 요일 and not 요닐, and an Chinese person is still called a 중국인 and not a 중국닌. Wiktionary also did not mention any N-restoring North Korean alternatives for these roots despite North Korean not observing this initial sound rule to begin with. In which cases does the N get restored here and when does it not? Primal Groudon (talk) 03:07, 5 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

April 6

Excusatio Lazari

Aldine Press: dolphin (speed) & anchor (stability) = *Festina lente* [1]

Hello, I came across an Excusatio Lazari (typo excuse) (discussed here) yesterday atop an errata et corrigenda insert to this 2015 book on The Tempest (Giorgione); pretty much identical to the image to the right (Lazzaro de' Soardi not Lazarus); I'm going to add a stub, but ideally would like (an)other view(s) as to how it might best be translated (I found line 2 hardest (grammate is slightly abbreviated) (I think)); also, what's the character to the left of Sola virtus at the bottom, and what does the abbreviation L S O next to the ?patriarchal cross? stand for?

If by chance anything should offend your eyes, reader, because of how a line of mine might read, with a faulty character or two, you may wish to emend (as follows); for Lazzaro your bookseller did not put the final touches to me with those blemishes, more it is a matter of the befuddled artlessness of the printer when, at a late hour, he turned his weary hands to his arts ... Virtue alone overcomes all

Thank you, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 07:48, 6 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Are you sure that's the letter O? The symbol as a whole looks like a cross-section of a sailing ship. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:57, 6 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

More plausibly, it appears to be a Globus cruciger with a Patriarchal cross, though a double meaning (a visual double entendre, if you will) is entirely possible.

"LSO: possibly Lutheran Solae Order, though I'm very doubtful. Overall, the device does resemble a typical papermaker's watermark or a printer's mark (see the second illustration in the latter article) of the Shakespearian era. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2026-76101-8 (talk) 11:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Thank you; apparently printers devices/emblems around this time in (watery) Venice often contained nautical devices "to signify the transport of knowledge or commerce" (per google); per here, the emblem/logo of Lazzaro SOardi has the same initials as Casa Editrice Leo S. Olschki, which borrows it; apparently there's something about Litteris servabitur orbis "the world will be served/saved by letters" too, but that may be later; per [3], Gabriele d'Annunzio defined the logo as a "crossed and divided heart", Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 12:17, 6 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Globus cruciger and a double entendre (of sorts), great; v. similar printer's mark, thank you, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 12:17, 6 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Calquing the Latin supine in modern English

Hello, again!

When modern Celtic, Germanic, and Romance languages emerged in the Middle Ages, they abandoned certain classical inflexions such as the ethical dative, gerundive and supine. In the case of the supine, the Ancients treated it as a finite tense, even though it had only 2 forms (extremely unusual for Latin).

Namely, for certain verbs of motion, it—in the accusative case—acted almost like a modal verb in English.

e.g.

It plexum comam.  `She is going to plait her hair`.

Whereas in certain adjectives affecting emotional states, it—in the ablative case—transferred said adjective's meaning from the subject to the verb.

e.g. (with apology to the United Negro College Fund)

Terribile prodactu est mens.  `A mind is a terrible thing to waste.`

i.e., It's not the mind that constitutes "a terrible thing" but rather the wasting.

I have two questions, however, regarding the accusative-case supine:

A.) Is it purely restricted, in this day and age, merely to vulgar forms of shall/will?

e.g. "I'm coming to get you!" "We're going to set the record straight."

Or can it also inflect, as other English forms, for various tenses, aspects, and voices?

e.g. "I was going to finish the project."

"He will be coming to assist us."

"They have been going to fight the war."

"She would be coming to organize the library."

"It can be going to pick up the stranded passengers."

"I must be coming to relieve the overworked sentries."

And B.) Does it only exist in English and the Romance languages, or would one also encounter a similar structure in other Western languages such as German, Dutch, or Swedish?

Thank you for reading this.

Pine (talk) 20:39, 6 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid I'm finding the question a little hard to follow. For example, when you say "it—in the accusative case—acted almost like a modal verb in English", what do you mean by "it"? Is that the English pronoun, and if so what is its referent? Or is it the third-person present indicative singular of ire, and if so what do you mean by putting that in the accusative case? --Trovatore (talk) 21:07, 6 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I meant:

"[T]he Latin supine—in the accusative case—... ."

Not the English word it. Pine (talk) 21:20, 6 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Also, as it's phrased, I guess it might only be claimed that the Romance languages abandoned classical inflexions. Germanic and Celtic languages worked differently than Latin ever since they began emerging. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 22:17, 6 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The reason I focused on the word "it" is that your first Latin example starts with it as an inflection of ire. --Trovatore (talk) 23:25, 6 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

A grammatical analysis of Celtic, Germanic, or modern Romance phrases in terms of the Latin supine is IMO bound to be as artificial as the application of the label supine to the English to-infinitive. In the English sentence "She is going to plait her hair", the phrase going to will normally be understood to express the prospective aspect of the plaiting; the participle going does not function as a verb of motion. Whether "to be coming" is a verb of motion in the sentence "I'm coming to get you!" is irrelevant to the ability to use a to-infinitive; one can also say, "I want to get you, and I will!", or, "I'll do whatever it takes to get you!". ‑‑Lambiam 07:34, 7 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

April 8

English numeric designations

How are numeric designations with leading zeroes pronounced in English? For example, is 023 (regardless of what it means) pronounced as "oh twenty-three" or "zero twenty-three"? And are numbers from 100 up pronounced as normally when used as numeric designations (such as in license plates, house numbers, road numbers, public transport line numbers etc.) such as 123 as "one hundred twenty-three" and 1234 as "one thousand two hundred thirty-four"? Plus, are 24-hour clock times of the first hour (beginning with 0:) pronounced like 0:23 as "oh twenty-three" and 0:01 as "oh oh one"? Is midnight (0:00) as "oh oh oh"? --40bus (talk) 06:14, 8 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

If it's part of a license plate number or phone number, for example, you would probably read it as "zero-two-three". In less formal usage, for those various examples you might say "oh-twenty-three", "one-twenty-three" and "twelve-thirty-four". It depends on the number. For the year 1600 you would probably say "sixteen-hundred". For the address of Wrigley Field, you would probably say "sixteen-hundred West Addison Street". For exactly midnight, you might well just say "midnight". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:13, 8 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The switch between "oh" and "zero" is one of personal preference, setting, etc. Contra Bugs above, I'd say that using "oh" isn't really marked as informal. If anything, I'd suggest using the zero lends a slight air of stuffiness or excessive formality, like giving an address in the format of "One thousand three hundred thirteen Mockingbird Lane". You might do it when filling out a police report, but not in any kind of normal speech. If you're reading out digits, zero is the odd one out with two full syllables (seven has as well, but the stress means the "-en" gets mushed into the "sev-", like "sevn". So, if you're reading out a lot of numbers, using "oh" saves time and breath. Matt Deres (talk) 12:56, 8 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

In Britain (so BrE) the distinction between 'oh' (as letter) and 'zero' can be important, such as address postcodes where both are used, so where that is a possibility, or in a mathematical context, a 'careful speaker uses 'zero' (or in particular circumstances 'nil', 'nought', 'nothing', 'love'): Otherwise "oh" is colloquial.

Again in Britain, three-figure house numbers and similar are usually said as "One (or A) hundred and twenty-three", etc. "One hundred twenty-three" sounds a little 'American' to Brits, which many of us prefer not to do.

In military and similar formal situations (a police message, for example) and when using bus or train timetables, "Oh twenty-three" or "zero twenty-three" would be said, but "Oh oh oh" would sound a little odd, so perhaps "Twenty-four hundred hours" is more likely. In general speech, 24-hour times wouldn't be used. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2026-76101-8 (talk) 13:39, 8 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

@ Matt Deres. Point taken, but "oh" is never used for zero when it's in isolation. For ex, if some context required a numerical specification, we'd never say "There are oh apples in that basket". I may have mentioned here about the sports commentators who now regularly talk about some team's progress in the season to date, in terms of matches won and lost, as "five and oh". That raises my inner pedant's eyebrows because the "and" suggests it's two things considered in isolation, and that violates the rule I mentioned. (I know that usage trumps pedantry every time, but we can still grumble.) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 17:48, 8 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, but how often do you say "There are zero apples in that basket"? I don't think I would ever say that unless I was making some kind of special point about it being empty. I'd say "There are no apples in that basket." I don't follow your wins and losses example. You literally describe the situation as "won and lost", so you're clearly okay with the "and" being used to separate wins and losses, no? To me, "Team X is five zero" or "Team X is five oh" sound incomplete. The score could be five-oh, but the record would be five-and-oh. Matt Deres (talk) 19:10, 8 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

In my experience in North Carolina: 1) Leading zeroes are rare in general usage. In instances where they are required, the sequence would most likely be read digit by digit (zero - two - three). Reading 0 as "oh" is more common in the general public, but if the designation can also include letters, there is a need for specificity. 2) Numbers for designations are usually read either digit by digit (for 3 digit numbers) or pair by pair (for four digit numbers). So the address 947 Main Street would be "nine - four - seven Main Street", but 1168 Main Street would be "eleven - sixty-eight Main Street". Larger numbers get more complicated. The address 21674 Main Street could be read several ways, but such large designations are rare in my area. Exact hundred designations would be "____ hundred". So 500 and 1100 would be "five hundred" and "eleven hundred" respectively. 3) There is virtually no use of 24 hour time amongst the general public in my area. User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 17:26, 8 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Canyons and halapenyos

Our article says that cañon is an archaic British English spelling for canyon. Yet twice in the past two days, while doing research for a project, I've encountered cañon in unrelated places. Firstly, a quote by Teddy Roosevelt from 1905 extolling the virtues of Colorado; then in some letters by Oscar Wilde describing his visits to the canyons of the American West in 1882. These citations are elderly, but not yet what I’d call archaic, and American presidents certainly don't speak British English.

Cañon seems to be based on the Spanish word cañón, with the tilde retained but the latter diacritic removed, and the stress moved from the second to the first syllable. One might say the exercise was hardly worth the trouble if it introduced so many changes from the original spelling and pronunciation. That brings up the selectivity and unpredictability we exhibit when it comes to deciding what foreign diacritics we accept, and what foreign pronunciations we adopt. A couple of examples:

El Niño and La Niña are usually spelled with the tildes, but are often pronounced as if they weren't there – and not even el nine-oh/a but el nee-no/a. They acknowledge the Spanish origin of the term by getting the vowel sound right, but ignore the effect of the tilde.
Similarly, we universally recognise that the j in jalapeño is pronounced as h, but mostly the last two syllables are spoken as "peeno", even when the tilde is written in, which is a bit ~~touch-and-go~~ hit-and-miss.

In canyon we've gone to the trouble of writing out the pronunciation of ñ as ny, rather than just leaving it to chance – but I suppose that's because to simply drop the tilde would have given us "canon", and English abhors homophones (not). But that means we have recognised, culturally, that ñ and n are not the same thing, even if later generations have forgotten this.

Are there any other examples where we ensure we get the pronunciation (at least roughly) right by respelling letters not found in the standard 26 we're all taught in school, into something more recognisable? I'm not talking here about words in entirely or substantially foreign-looking alphabets like Greek or Cyrillic that need to be romanised/transliterated, but words from languages that use the Latin alphabet except with the addition of various diacritics that English knows not and are not generally taught in schools. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 18:27, 8 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

In words borrowed from Turkish, the letter ⟨ş⟩ usually becomes ⟨sh⟩: şiş kebabı → shish kebab. However, this may not be a good example, since the term was probably borrowed in the Ottoman period, before the Latin alphabet was introduced in Turkey. I cannot think of later borrowings involving a ⟨ş⟩. ‑‑Lambiam 22:03, 8 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

A note regarding your comments on words with ñ. Cañon City, Colorado, was officially Canon City until 1994 and was often pronounced, mostly by nonresidents, like the musical canon. And in the U.S., the pronunciations I most often hear for jalapeño are hal-uh-PAY-nyoh and hal-uh-PEE-nyoh; only rarely do I hear the "-peeno" version. On the main question, the first thing I thought of was Slavic words and names ending in -ič that are anglicized with an -ich spelling, but haven't come up with any offhand. The spelling of the golfer Ludvig Åberg's surname hasn't been changed, but all the announcers are aware that it's pronounced OH-berg. Deor (talk) 23:13, 8 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

But the g in Åberg is pronounced like y. DuncanHill (talk) 17:44, 10 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I guess getting the vowel more or less correct is as far as the announcers are willing to go with an alien name. Deor (talk) 17:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Is jalapeño ever pronounced with a /d͡ʒ/ sound? In Finnish, jalapeño is always pronounced with /j/ sound, never with /h/ sound at the beginning and usually with /n/ instead of /nj/ sound in the middle. --40bus (talk) 05:49, 9 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Wiktionary mentions /ˌdʒæləˈpiːnəʊ/ as an option under Received Pronunciation. It's sourced. It must be a spelling pronunciation. /d͡ʒəˈlæpənoʊ/ is listed as a humorous US spelling pronunciation.

In general, I expect three options for the pronunciation of the <j> here: (1) a spelling pronunciation, using whatever is the usual pronunciation of <j> in the borrowing language; (2) /h/, borrowed from Mexican Spanish; (3) /x/, borrowed from Iberian Spanish. I expect (2) to be more common in America, (3) more common in Europe, but keep in mind that not all languages use /h/ or /x/, which may lead to some substitution. Most varieties of English (other than Scottish and Irish English) lack /x/. PiusImpavidus (talk) 10:02, 9 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

If I recall correctly, jalapenos (usually spelt without the diacritics here) are a fairly recent introduction to Britain, perhaps in the 1990s? So when they were a new thing, people would pronounce them using English orthography, which is perhaps why Wiktionary records the dʒ sound for RP. As they became more commonplace, we have adopted an approximation of the Spanish pronunciation with an initial h, but commonly using an n rather than an nj in my experience. Alansplodge (talk) 11:57, 10 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently, there are lots and lots of cultivars of Capsicum annuum, inconsistently named, of which jalapeño is one, and different cultivars may be popular in different parts of the world. That explains why it may not be very well known in Europe. Something very similar may be well known.

I suppose the English approximate the Mexican pronunciation, not the Iberian, because the Iberian /x/ is too alien to them (and to copy the Americans). Polish (which has no /h/) and German (which has both /h/ and t/x/) use the Iberian /x/. PiusImpavidus (talk) 16:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

There are few Mexican immigrants in Britain, so most of our experience with chillies is with those used in Indian or Caribbean cooking. The legacy of Empire. Alansplodge (talk) 15:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say it would be fairly well known in Western Europe, at least in recent decades. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 15:18, 12 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but not much before the Millineum I'd say. Alansplodge (talk) 16:38, 12 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

@ Deor, these may amuse you: [4], [5], [6], [7]. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 07:32, 9 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Similarly skol (skål). Card Zero (talk) 10:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

JackofOz, jalapeño may possibly be pronounced /hɑːlɑːpiːnoʊ/ in Oz, but definitely not in California. If anything people tend to interpolate a nonexistent enye into habanero (one of my peeves; see hyperforeignism). --Trovatore (talk) 17:04, 10 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

There's Althing, which I suppose might otherwise be pronounced Alping by the unwary. Card Zero (talk) 10:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

April 10

English letters

Do English words that end in a consonant digraph (such as bath, which and trash) end "in two consonants", since there are two consonant letters, but only one sound? --40bus (talk) 23:59, 10 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The term consonant has two distinct meanings. Quoting Wiktionary:

Noun

consonant (plural consonants)

(phonetics) A sound that results from the passage of air through restrictions of the oral cavity; any sound that is not the dominant sound of a syllable, the dominant sound generally being a vowel.
A letter representing the sound of a consonant.

The answer to the question depends on which is the intended meaning. ‑‑Lambiam 01:04, 11 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

April 11

Date and time

Is there any English-speaking country where usage of 24- and 12-hour clocks is similar to Finland? Is there any English-speaking country where 24-hour clock is recommended style for journalism?
How common is it in the US to use 24-hour clock in daily conversation?
Doe English speakers ever use forms like "week beginning on 6 April 2026" meaning a week beginning on its Monday? In which English-speaking countries is Monday always the first day of the week?
Do English speakers ever use forms like "Saturday in week 15" meaning Saturday of ISO week numbered 15 (which can be 11 April at its earliest and 17 April at its latest)? --40bus (talk) 13:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
2. I've never heard it personally. Following its common designation as military time here, I believe its usage would be interpreted as being for military purposes or as an ironic imitation of such.

4. Maybe if you have something like a project that is divided up by weeks, and it started in the first week of the year. Otherwise, if someone were to refer to a specific week number, what date range that actually refers to would not be commonly known.

GalacticShoe (talk) 13:31, 11 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

1. 24-hour timekeeping is not a thing people use much in any English-speaking countries; it gets used in places like the military and hospitals and some corporations may make use of it as well, but it's not a thing that people use in private life.

2. It is rare outside the circumstances in Q1.

3. Ever? Probably. Monday being the first day of the week is an ISO 8601 standard. See also ISO week date.

4. No. Week numbers are not a thing in that way. Many corporations make use of fiscal weeks within a fiscal year framework, but that has no direct relation to ISO weeks. Matt Deres (talk) 15:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree somewhat with your (1.). In the UK 24-hour times are normal in bus, train, ferry etc. timetables, and are often used in making appointments with any kind of organisation. They are therefore familiar and are used where appropriate, though not in normal, casual conversation.

Having visited Finland, I did not notice any difference there in the use of 12- and 24-hour times to the UK's (though admittedly I was not reading Finnish-language material while there, and was conversing with English speakers). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2026-76101-8 (talk) 16:24, 11 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Its not uncommon for Brits to chat to someone saying 'meet me at 3' and have their phones set to 24 hour, so when it says 14:35, they have 25 more mins. Same with shop opening hours and road signs which are usually written in the 12 hour format. I just know that 13 is 1pm, 14 is 2pm, 15 is 3pm, etc. Its pretty much only computer systems (in addition to transport systems except road signs) that use the 24 hour format predominantly in the UK as even government websites use 12 hour. JuniperChill (talk) 17:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

1 & 2) the 24 hour clock is never used by the general public in the US.

3) Americans might say the week beginning [on a particular Monday date] but only with the implied meaning of "work week". In the US, the actual week is always Sunday to Saturday. 4) I second Matt Deres comment here. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 13:05, 12 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

3) At school in England in the 1960s, we were taught that Sunday was the first day of the week (for religious reasons), but diaries and year planners universally start their week with a Monday, because they use the ISO week date system. I think most people in Britain would now count Monday as the first day of the week, but it's not something that is discussed often. Alansplodge (talk) 14:57, 12 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Canada regards Sunday as the first day of the week, likely inherited from our English friends. I never quite understood that from a religious perspective, though; I'm rusty, but I'm pretty sure the big cheese rested on the seventh day, not the first one. Matt Deres (talk) 16:42, 12 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The seventh day of creation was the first ever Sabbath, i.e. a Saturday. ‑‑Lambiam 17:38, 12 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

If you're Jewish. Straight from the lead of the article: "A day of rest is observed in Islam (Friday), Judaism (Saturday), and Christianity (Sunday)." Matt Deres (talk) 18:18, 12 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

What about the Flying Spaghetti Monster fans and us Olympians? MinorProphet (talk) 19:08, 12 April 2026 (UTC) [reply]

That's at best highly simplified. The distinction between the sabbath and the Lord's day is still made in many Christian contexts. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 12:28, 13 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Do Americans ever say: a week from 13 to 19 April (or a week from April 13 to 19)? Would they ever write: Sunday, 12/4/2026 (the other date that can be written as 12/4/2026, 4 December 2026, will be a Friday, so using "Sunday" with the date would not cause confusion)? Is there any English-speaking country where road signs use 24-hour clock? --40bus (talk) 19:39, 12 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I guess Ireland is the only English-speaking country to use the 24 hour format on road signs, possibly because of the need to provide Irish and English on road signs, and because 5pm is not used in Irish. (Note that I had to move your comment as otherwise it looked like the replies were in the wrong place) JuniperChill (talk) 20:03, 12 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe if they're talking about any given week of no particular year which falls between those dates. For a specific week, perhaps "the week from April 13 to 19" or "the week starting April 13th".

Americans might write "Sunday, 12/4/2026", but I don't think anyone speaking English would use the day of the week with the intention of differentiating between different date formats. Someone parsing the information would be able to use the day to determine which date format is being used, but generally people just use one date format or another and it's up to the audience to interpret which it is from context. ~2026-22644-00 (talk) 10:29, 13 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

We would say "the week from April 13 to 19", but probably not for this year because we start weeks on Sundays. Giving the day of the week as well as the date is quite common, and has nothing to do with clarifying the date format. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 12:52, 13 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Are simple signalling mirrors heliographs?

The Heliograph Wikipedia article describes a more complex instrument with mirrors on arms and a tripod. Searching Google shows other parties calling a mirror with an unsilvered hole a "heliograph". Is that the proper term for a signalling mirror, and if so, should the article reflect (pun unintended) it? Thanks, cmɢʟee τaʟκ (please add {{ping|cmglee}} to your reply) 17:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The article you link itself calls this a heliograph. The second sentence of its Description section reads: "Most heliographs were variants of the British Army Mance Mark V version (Fig.1). It used a flat round mirror with a small unsilvered spot in the centre." {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2026-76101-8 (talk) 22:31, 11 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Lifeboats are provided with a small steel mirror, pierced with a small hole, and with an attached white stick, also holed, for aligning the reflected light. This is an example. They are usually described as a heliograph. Alansplodge (talk) 14:49, 12 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Signaling targets marked × using heliographs with sighting vanes (top) and double-sided mirrors (bottom)

Thank you very much

Done cmɢʟee τaʟκ (please add {{ping|cmglee}} to your reply) 12:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

April 12

Pronunciation of Theologian: /θi.əˈloʊd͡ʒən/, or /θi.əˈloʊd͡ʒiən/ ?

Per Wiktionary, it's pronounced: /θi.əˈloʊd͡ʒən/. The same is true for its pronunciation in the audio of GoogleTranslate. But Wiktionary (mentioned above) also gives a (single) audio, pronouncing: /θi.əˈloʊd͡ʒiən/, unless I don't hear well. Are both forms recognized as a native pronunciation? ~2026-22374-78 (talk) 17:43, 12 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. I think of /θi.əˈloʊd͡ʒiən/ as kind of a spelling pronunciation, but it's pretty common. Pronouncing it that way would not mark you as non-native in my experience. Matt Deres (talk) 18:21, 12 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I think of /θi.əˈloʊd͡ʒən/ as a slightly lazy pronunciation of /θi.əˈloʊd͡ʒiən/: my copy of the (Compact) Oxford English Dictionary (1971 edition) gives the pronuciation as Þīolō^u'dʒiān. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2026-76101-8 (talk) 20:04, 12 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure I trust any pronunciation that doesn't include a single schwa . Matt Deres (talk) 20:28, 13 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

OED gives /ˌθiːəˈləʊdʒ(ə)n/ thee-uh-LOH-juhn and /ˌθiːəˈləʊdʒiən/ thee-uh-LOH-jee-uhn for British English, and /ˌθiəˈloʊdʒən/ thee-uh-LOH-juhn For American. I have to say the "ee-uhn" pronunciation sounds to my ears like someone has never met the word before and is guessing from the spelling. DuncanHill (talk) 22:49, 13 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Guessing the pronunciation of a word from the way it's written? What a crazy thought! — Kpalion^(talk) 10:04, 15 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Particularly for such a common word as "theologian". 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 11:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

OK, well what I should have said is "guessing without being aware that the i modifies the preceding consonant rather than being pronounced as a distinct vowel, as in mathematician, politician, and pronunciation". Like the j in Swedish sjö. DuncanHill (talk) 13:48, 15 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Temperature vocabulary

In Finnish, the following constructions are commonly used when talking about temperatures:

Lämpötila on viisi astetta lämmintä/pakkasta. (lit. "The temperature is five degrees warm/frost.")
Lämpötila on viisi astetta nollan yläpuolella/alapuolella. (lit. "The temperature is five degrees above/below zero.")
Lämpötila on viisi astetta pakkasen puolella. (lit. "The temperature is five degrees below freezing.")
On pakkasta. (lit. "It is frost.").
Pakkanen lauhtuu/kiristyy. (lit. "Frost becomes milder/tighter.")
On plusasteita/miinusasteita. (lit. "There are plus/minus degrees.")

Are there any equivalent constructions in English? Some of these would not work when using Fahrenheit scale, where the zero point is not the feezing point. --40bus (talk) 19:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The second and third examples are standard - if slightly stilted - English. We wouldn't normally use "warm/cool/cold" directly with a numbered temperature and "frost" is not the correct word. We use adjectives to modify temperatures in cases such as where wind chill or humidex impacts the experience: "It's a muggy 35C out there". In English, "frost" refers to what's covered in the article; it's not an adjective or adverb. "Frosty" would be used: "It's frosty out there!". Your fifth example is so different from English I'm not certain what's being conveyed. "Tighter" has no meaning to us when describing temperature. Finally, we might say that "It is minus two outside" or "It is plus five out there", but we would not use the multiple "there are" and we'd omit the degrees as it's normally unambiguous. Matt Deres (talk) Matt Deres (talk) 20:12, 12 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

In UK weather forecasts it was and is not uncommon to hear an expression such as "There will be five degrees of frost", meaning a temperature of 5 degrees below freezing. Now this means a temperature of minus 5 degrees centigrade: in years gone by it meant (as everyone understood) a temperature of 27 degrees Fahrenheit, which is of course not the same as -5C. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2026-76101-8 (talk) 20:30, 12 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

It does go to show that online, when reading comments, I sometimes have to check whether the channel is from the US or not, so that I have an idea whether they using C or F (or the date format). When I see temps over 50, then I assume its in F. I was so shocked that Americans could survive 100 degrees every day in the summer, until I realised they measure temperature differently and that its 37,8c. Same with different measurement systems, date formats, paper sizes, etc. JuniperChill (talk) 21:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Fahrenheit is the American system I have most troubles wrapping my head around. It's both that the degrees are smaller, and the zero level is different. The date format is of course fairly easy to understand, but it still leads to frequent mix-ups. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 11:50, 13 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, 95.6 % of the World is out of step with the US 4.3% (plus the 0.08% comprising the Bahamas, Belize, Liberia, the Cayman Islands, and Palau, which also still use Fahrenheit). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2026-76101-8 (talk) 18:55, 13 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Fahrenheit's finer gradient gives it an advantage over Celsius. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:10, 13 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Why is this an advantage? I doubt if anyone human can directly sense a difference of as little as 1 degree Fahrenheit, and if fine gradations are needed, either scale can employ decimal fractions of a degree. Scientists always, and engineers most of the time, use Centigrade because it integrates with all other SI units.

Being old, I grew up in the UK (and Far East) using Fahrenheit for everyday temperatures, especially weather (though Centigrade for science, etc.), and still need to convert C to F in my head (trivially easy) to know how an air temperature will feel, but that doesn't mean I think F is in any way 'better'. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2026-76101-8 (talk) 22:22, 13 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

How does Celsius integrate with other SI units? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:43, 13 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

It's elephantly described in the article International System of Units... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 00:09, 14 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

How is Celsius dependent on grams and meters, or vice versa? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:19, 14 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The degree Celsius isn't the SI unit of temperature; that's the kelvin. It depends on the second, Planck's constant and Boltzmann's constant. The size of a degree Celsius is equal to a kelvin, so for changes in temperature they're equivalent. Fahrenheit not only requires a shift, but also scaling. And meteorologically speaking, having zero at the freezing point of water is more convenient than having it at the freezing point of an eutectic mixture of water and ammonium chloride, as the former is more relevant. PiusImpavidus (talk) 11:40, 14 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

It's mostly about the metricists' obsession with powers of 10. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:38, 15 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The noun pakkanen in the sentence "Pakkanen kiristyy" does not mean "frost" but "frosty cold", that is, sub-zero cold (where zero = 0°C). ‑‑Lambiam 07:31, 13 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Morse code in Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal comics

In the Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal for April 9, Terence Tao appears keying Morse code. Can you transcribe it? Thanks. --Error (talk) 20:08, 12 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

take that Jenkins ---Sluzzelin talk 20:20, 12 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

April 14

Future perfect in Article II

Article Two of the United States Constitution sez:

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

If we separate out the residency part of it, I think we get

[...]shall not have[...]been fourteen Years a Resident[...]

Now, the present perfect in English (and I suppose, by extension, the future perfect) can be used in (at least) two ways, to indicate something occurring in past time (as referred to future time in the future perfect case) but that is not precluded from occurring again, or to indicate something that continues into present (future) time.

If we interpret it the first way, it means that you just have to have been a US resident for 14 years at some point, perhaps not even consecutively, whereas if you interpret it the second way, it means you have to have been a resident for the 14 years immediately preceding.

I don't see anything in either the Article II article linked above, nor in President of the United States#Eligibility, that addresses this ambiguity. Does anyone know if there has been any court case or scholarly analysis that does?

This came up because someone asked if Pope Leo XIV could be elected president. I would assume he can, but it does seem slightly ambiguous in terms of the plain text. --Trovatore (talk) 22:57, 14 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Herbert Hoover, for example, lived in London from 1910 to 1917, and when he ran for election in 1928, he had only lived, on his return, to the U.S. for 11 years. This did not disqualify him from the presidency.]. So the interpretation seems to be "a total of at least 14 years in their whole lifetime so far". -- ~2026-23229-92 (talk) 07:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Provided a person lives long enough, they attain, during their lifetime, "to the Age of thirty five Years". The attaining is a one-time event, which takes place exactly thirty-five years after the person's birth. If we consider the use of the future perfect in the second exclusion criterion after the semicolon ambiguous, we should do likewise for the first criterion. This then implies that to be elected President of the United States on November 7, 2028, might require the candidate's birth date to be November 7, 1993. Conversely, if the first use is considered to mean, like duh!, that the future-perfect event must have become fulfilled some time in the past of the future frame, the second use should certainly be treated the same. ‑‑Lambiam 11:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

And of course, depending on how you parse the sentence, you might also claim that only those who are under 35 years old AND have lived in the USA for at least 14 years are excluded from the presidency even if they are a natural born citizen. -- ~2026-23229-92 (talk) 11:57, 15 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

April 15

Homophones without shared letters

I saw this as click-bait on FB and thought I'd turn here to see what the answer might be: what are the longest homophones in the English language that share no letters between them? The longest I could come up with is YOU and EWE, which is only three. Are there any with four or more? Remember, no letters can be shared, so eight/ate is not valid. Matt Deres (talk) 14:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Another 3+3 in RP: auk and orc. ‑‑Lambiam 08:21, 16 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

faux and pho. The former is from French, the latter is from Vietnamese, but both are readily understood in English (my spellchecker passes both without complaint). --~2026-23374-42 (talk) 16:37, 15 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

If the sound file on pho is correct, they're not homophones; the vowel in faux is more rounded. Though I guess that's the Vietnamese pronunciation; I would consider them homophones in English. Matt Deres (talk) 19:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

English questions

Are there any polysyllabic words in English where word-final "ey" is pronounced as /eɪ̯/? I know some such monosyllabic words such as hey and grey, but not any such polysyllabic words? The /eɪ̯/ in such polysyllabic words would be unstressed, as if the word money were pronounced as /ˈmɒ.neɪ̯/. Are there any words in English where the "long" vowels /eɪ̯/, /iː/, /aɪ̯/, /oʊ̯/, /uː/ and /juː/ occur in unstressed syllables?
Are there any verbs in English where letter J is pronounced /j/?
Are there any words borrowed from French where French ca, co, cu appears as ka, ko, ku in English?
Are there any words in English that end in /h/ sound in all dialects?
Do any English speakers consider it significant when the clock shows 22:22, with four 2's?
How is 24:00 pronounced in English? In Finnish, it is pronounced as kaksikymmentäneljä nollanolla.

--40bus (talk) 21:23, 15 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

1)Nothing come to mind. The short answer to the second part of the question is surely no, but one could probably find a word where the only real evidence for the secondary or tertiary stress usually assumed for a syllable is the long vowel sound itself.

2)Not that I can think of; /j/ for 'j' is quite rare in English and only occurs in foreign words which are mostly nouns.

3)I don't think so. Why would such spellings be used in English where they are generally avoided even if potentially justified, as for example, by a borrowing from German.

4)Not any I know since we rarely use 24hour time and never think of clocks showing it (I work in healthcare and both my work phone and car clock show 24hr time but I still consider it niche and rarely use it in speech).

5)Midnight. In 'military time' it might be 2400 "twenty four hundred hours" but I've always seen it written as 0000. Eluchil404 (talk) 02:13, 16 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

If we cheat by allowing for foreign-origin names, then for 1. there is at least the Spanish-derived Monterrey. Not much else comes to mind, however. GalacticShoe (talk) 02:39, 16 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I have almost never seen 2400 time ever displayed, let alone spoken. Its why GB railways don't have trains that are scheduled to depart/arrive at 2400/0000 and choose 2359/0001 instead to reduce passenger confusion. Perhaps the only time I've ever seen a source use 2400 is when I was curious on HGV driving hours. under 'weekly rest periods' A fixed week starts at 00.00 on Monday and ends at 24.00 on the following Sunday. [emphasis added] JuniperChill (talk) 11:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

2)The only thing that comes to mind is when Wally Walrus says "By yumpin' Yiminy", but that's because of his Scandinavian accent.

5)Only trivia buffs maybe. Like with the time 11:11. Or "special" days like March 14th and May the 4th.

6)As noted by Eluchil, 24:00, if used, would be "twenty four hundred hours". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:43, 16 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Except in military contexts, where 24:00 is called "zero hundred hours". [8] Alansplodge (talk) 11:42, 16 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

1) One of the pronunciations of survey has its stress on the first syllable. Also heydey, an alternative spelling of heyday. If the stress may be final, there are also agley, convey, obey and purvey. ‑‑Lambiam 08:03, 16 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

1: Lamprey, a fish. Wiktionary lists two pronunciations, one of which matches.

4: I'm not aware of any use of /h/ (or /ɦ/) in any Germanic language, other than as the sole consonant in a syllable onset. But then, I don't speak every Germanic language, let alone every dialect. PiusImpavidus (talk) 08:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Are there any words in English where /h/ occurs before a consonant like in Finnish words tahra, nahka and pehmeä? In these cases, the Finnish /h/ is pronounced as [x] is after back vowels and [ç] if after front vowels. Are there any such words in English? --40bus (talk) 20:53, 16 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

2. Hallelujah, apparently, if considered a verb. According to Wiktionary, Jäger/ jäger is only used as a noun. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 12:25, 16 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

April 16

A strange accent (to me at least)

I'm an Australian, with a lot of exposure to a wide range of British accents, but this one has me puzzled. It's particularly the soloist at the beginning that's got me stumped. It kinda reminds me of some over-the-top stuff I used to hear as a kid in church from rather pretentious ladies, but maybe it really is just natural for some people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAZN1oVir5A HiLo48 (talk) 03:13, 16 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

It's a style that is/was not uncommon in well-trained church choral singing, in the same way that certain 'voices' in opera singing are not usually heard outside that context. It doesn't stem from the actual regional accent of the singer. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} ~2026-76101-8 (talk) 05:53, 16 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it's not an unusual singing accent. Our article says "The theme music was a setting of Psalm 23 composed by Howard Goodall, and was performed by the choir of Christ Church Cathedral, Oxford, with George Humphreys singing the solo". Humphreys is now a baritone, and has a website here. DuncanHill (talk) 10:01, 16 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Most English Anglican cathedrals have a dedicated choir boarding school, where children live full-time (boys and in recent decades, girls too in some cases) and are highly trained to sing in a centuries-old traditional style to produce a distinctive sound. In contrast to continental European choral singing, there is little or no vibrato, and emphasis is placed on enunciation, since performance is in vast medieval buildings without amplification. Details of this particular choir school are at Christ Church Cathedral School. Alansplodge (talk) 11:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Personally, I often struggle to follow the lyrics in choral singing and opera, since the rhythm feels so unnatural. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 11:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps try Anglican chant which has no set rhythm. [9] Alansplodge (talk) 12:34, 16 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

English J

Why word-final /d͡ʒ/ in English is spelled ⟨dge⟩ instead of ⟨j⟩? For example, why is bridge not brij? --40bus (talk) 22:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The short answer is preserved, etymological orthography. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 23:32, 16 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

English verbs

Are there any verbs in English that get both ending -ed and ablaut in the past participle? There are some such forms such as kept and brought where the sound of the ending is the same as in -ed, but the ending are spelled differently. Are there any verbs where the ending is also spelled -ed, as if kept and brought were spelled keped and broughed respectively? --40bus (talk) 22:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]