Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive327
Aredoros87
[edit]| Closed with various sanctions for both Aredoros87 and KhndzorUtogh, see result section for a summary. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 07:07, 29 December 2023 (UTC) | ||
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Aredoros87[edit]
I am aware of the WP:BRD process and WP:CONS building. I do my best to avoid edit warring and work together with other editors, not against them. On one article I was reverted and never reverted the other user back, instead I had a long discussion that the other user who eventually stopped replying a month ago, but I still haven't reverted them since. Callanecc has voiced the concern 'while KU has provided some examples what I think they've demonstrated is that they were doing it sometimes but not in this instance'. In those instances, I felt what I was reverting had to be removed immediately for MOS:ALLEGED in a contentious subject and WP:LIBEL, which states to remove the material when identified. I was only trying to do what I thought the guidelines required; I generally don't mind leaving my changes reverted until a consensus is reached. I didn't even want to make this report, a lot of other users probably would've done so immediately after Aredoros used a source denying the Armenian genocide (explicitly condemned in WP:GS/AA) but I instead wanted to explain why that kind of source isn't reliable. I only felt compelled to make this report after the personal attack. If my understanding of the alleged and libel pages was incorrect, I apologize, and will be even more careful to avoid edit warring in the future. KhndzorUtogh (talk) 18:36, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Aredoros87[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Aredoros87[edit]R1.KU presented diffs in a misleading timeframe, but:
Statement by Grandmaster[edit]Per WP:Boomerang, I think it would be appropriate to look into KhndzorUtogh's own recent activity. Today he removed from 2023 Azerbaijani offensive in Nagorno-Karabakh the information provided by the top international organization, the UN, claiming that the UN info was false, despite no authoritative international organization or other third party source contesting it: [15] [16] Previously, he was among those who objected to inclusion of the same information in the related article of Flight of Nagorno-Karabakh Armenians. In order to resolve the dispute, I followed the advice of an admin and did an RFC on whether the UN information on violence against civilians during the recent hostilities should be included or not. The overwhelming community consensus was that the UN information should be included, and it was restored to the article. [17] Now KhndzorUtogh removes the same information from another article on the related topic, despite the clear community consensus that this information is relevant to the topic. Do we have to do RFCs on the same topic on every article concerning the same event, or it is enough to form the community consensus once and follow it? Grandmaster 10:14, 22 December 2023 (UTC) The information about the UN mission at the bottom of the article omits any mention of the UN mission report that it "did not come across any reports — either from the local population or from others — of violence against civilians following the latest ceasefire". This is the same situation that led to RFC in the article about the flight of Karabakh Armenians, where the UN mission was mentioned, but the part about civilian casualties was omitted. And 2023 Azerbaijani offensive in Nagorno-Karabakh and Flight of Nagorno-Karabakh Armenians are pretty much the same article split in 2, as one event led to the other. The arguments against inclusion of the UN mission findings about violence against civilians were discussed in much detail during the RFC, and were rejected by the community, but KhndzorUtogh keeps bringing them up again on a related article. Grandmaster 10:50, 23 December 2023 (UTC) With regard to this diff, when the UNCHR statement was removed with the comment that its place implied a rebuttal of a later statement by another source, I rearranged it chronologically to address the concern, when that was reverted by the same user, I continued discussion at talk. It is also worth mentioning that back in 2021 there was a complaint about KU [18], then a new user, of undoing edits by the same above-mentioned banned user Curious Golden regardless of their merit, and he was advised by the admins against doing that. Grandmaster 23:20, 25 December 2023 (UTC) @Firefangledfeathers. I only restored the content because the reverting user stated in his edit summary that its place implies that it serves as a rebuttal to the claim by Manasyan, but its date is wrong for it to do so. As one can see my edit summary, I put all the sources in chronological order, added date to UNHCR report, thinking that it would address his concerns. But when the same user removed the content second time, this time saying nothing about placement, but claiming that it was generally "dated" [19], I continued the discussion at talk. The only reason that I restored the UNHCR was that I thought that the objections could be addressed by sorting information according to their dates. I always try to resolve disputes in accordance to the rules, and it was me who started the RFC, and I've been considering another RFC on the same issue, and sought an advice from Callanecc [20]. I was just unsure whether it was worth doing a repeated RFC on the same issue. I think we see stonewalling from KU, because first they argued that the UN was undue, when the community rejected that, he said that the UN was "dated", while there was no information from the UN or any other independent party that would supersede it. When asked which Wikipedia rule requires to use only "up to date" info, KU referred to MOS:DATED [21], which in fact is not a rule, but a guidance on how to format articles, and it says quite the opposite, that the information needs to be dated precisely. A user who's been around for 2 years should be able to understand the rules. Grandmaster 09:25, 26 December 2023 (UTC) Statement by HistoryofIran[edit]
Clerk work (Aredoros87)[edit]
Result concerning Aredoros87[edit]
I've created this subsection so we can keep track of how we're closing this. I know it's not required but hopefully others find it useful. Admins feel free to add your username or other proposals. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 02:16, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Iennes
[edit]| Iennes' appeal is declined. Iennes, I would recommend that you spend 3–6 months familiarizing yourself with other parts of Wikipedia, until you are able to come back and explain what went wrong here and why we can be confident that you will be able to edit constructively in the topic area. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (they|xe|she) 01:05, 31 December 2023 (UTC) |
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Statement by Iennes[edit]No "final warning" message had been sent to me before the call. On December 25, after realizing that the number of Palestinian casualties was obsolete (18,600 instead of 20,000) in the lead of an article, I tried to correct it and soon realized it was impossible to edit in the actual article as some people had decided to create a template [31] to control that information and let it on December 20. So I wrote this message on the talk page to let them know that they not only abused of their editing skill but it was made on purpose to delay any update.[32]. The template was only updated on December 26, this very slow reaction in editing the right number of casualties is not at the level of wiki.[33] I was about to tone down the message the day after but the sanction had already arrived. One week before on December 14, I wrote messages on this article talk page [34] and then got messages from SFR on my talk page.[35] The reply I had written to SFR on my talk page [36] had been instantly erased a few minutes right after,[37] so it was supposed to not be read anymore and yet SFR dug it the day after [38], to use it in the sanction report. The right to oblivion for a personal message on a personal page exists. it is unfair and unreceivable to mention his reply to this as soon withdrawn message in his present sanction, this is a convenient help to reach the three mistakes. Directly giving an endless ban sanction is inappropriate, it has to be graduated. I am engaging myself here to comment on content and only on content from now on, and not write comments on users in any case anymore. I didn't disorganize wiki, I edited / added content with good quality sources in those articles.[39] [40]. So I would like to see this sanction reduced.
Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish[edit]Statement by (involved editor 1)[edit]Statement by (involved editor 2)[edit]Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Iennes[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Philipnelson99[edit]I agree with Galobtter. Throwing around accusations over something like this doesn't really appear good for you since the sanction was based on WP:BATTLEGROUND. Also since when is making a template a tactic to delay an update to an article? and even so, Wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWS. To say a single out of date figure is "not up to the level of wiki" makes no sense to me and to accuse the template creators of deliberately trying to prevent you from making an edit makes me believe the sanction imposed by SFR was warranted especially after browsing through your recent contribution history. Philipnelson99 (talk) 07:00, 29 December 2023 (UTC) Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)[edit]Result of the appeal by Iennes[edit]
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Wikieditor19920
[edit]| Wikieditor19920 has been blocked indefinitely for violating their community sanctions. Vanamonde93 (talk) 18:27, 1 January 2024 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Wikieditor19920[edit]
This comes after I checked this edit [46] which I partially reverted [47]. It changed the text to reflect exactly the opposite the cited source claimed. This went undetected for quite some time and it shows the editor still cannot engage in contentious areas.
Discussion concerning Wikieditor19920[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Wikieditor19920[edit]Statement by Zaathras[edit]Again with a big helping of "FWIW" as in the previous section - ugh, this guy I recall bad interactions with a year or 2 ago. Their editing of late is sporadic, but if all they are going to do is pop in and out every month with a load of buckshot, it may just be time to be escorted off the premises. Zaathras (talk) 14:55, 1 January 2024 (UTC) Statement by Wikieditor19920[edit]Oh look, Wikipedia functioning as usual: Self-described "communist" editor picks a few diffs out of context to claim a "topic ban violation." None of these diffs show a topic ban violation, and the reporter admits his report is a stretch. Any edit relating to Iran or Jewish emigration is not ARBPIA. International incidents are not domestic American politics. The insincere bellyaching about a bit of "sarcasm" given the blowhards on here like Nableezy -- see above -- is a joke. Reversion of these edits made the Soleimani article materially worse -- as it stands, it's a propaganda piece disproportionately focused on insignificant biographical details and regurgitating Iranian propaganda sources without context. Not surprising that the user who filed the report took issue with this based on their bio page. Wikieditor19920 (talk) 17:42, 1 January 2024 (UTC) Result concerning Wikieditor19920[edit]
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Nableezy
[edit]| Topic ban reduced by ScottishFinnishRadish. – bradv 05:40, 2 January 2024 (UTC) |
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Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by Nableezy[edit]I was warned for this response to another editor on 01:22, 25 December 2023, a response that had already been modified prior to any warning for that matter (23:55, 24 December 2023). I was then topic banned with the diffs supporting the ban 12:27, 24 December 2023 (pre warning, though also cautioned about that edit on 13:37, 24 December 2023), this revert and edit summary, apparently for calling the grammar "trash", a response on my talk page about that edit (2023-12-25 22:14:30), and my participation at an AN thread. SFR has said these demonstrate a pattern of battleground editing, but I dont see how. He has also said that
To be honest, the no carve out for Davidbena's mentorship is what drove me to appeal, so I’m fine with that modification, and I would make that commitment with or without the topic ban. nableezy - 00:06, 1 January 2024 (UTC) Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish[edit]
Statement by Coretheapple[edit]I generally edit on popular culture nowadays. I started editing I/P about two weeks ago and found the atmosphere to be poisonous. I commend ScottishFinnishRadish for doing the hard work required to improve civility on that page. When I began editing 2023 Israel-Hamas War, I made this comment on the talk page concerning an overlong paragraph: Perhaps what is being conveyed here can be described succinctly rather than reeling off what one media outlet after another said on this subject. The paragraph in question is overlong and disproportionate weight. Nableezy responded [61]. Guess it was the right amount of weight when it pushed the lie hundreds of Hamas militants have surrendered to Israel ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. II was new to the page, had never interacted with this editor before. I had never edited that paragraph before. I had never "pushed the lie" to which he referred. This was not "exasperation." He was questioning my motives. Nor was it an expression of "exasperation" when he accused me of being a hypocrite. Such personal attacks are no longer prevalent on that talk page entirely due to ScottishFinnishRadish and him alone. Coretheapple (talk) 23:26, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Homerethegreat[edit]Since I begun interacting with Nableezy I've felt a lack of understanding and respect and at times what has felt very clearly as complete lack of civility. Nableezy accused me of tag teaming [[62]] without presenting evidence. I once wrote to Nableezy stating that I thought he/she/they had done a false edit summary and Nableezy responded with what really felt like a series of personal attacks [[63]]. Nableezy said the following: "You have, consistently across a range of pages, attempted to skew the leads of articles by adding whatever bullshit you can Google up and stuff it in to the lead without a thought as to weight or how poorly you make the lead read. " He also said this: " your complaint here is as low quality as most of your edits. " Nableezy's inability to explain without using derogative terms and his negative style alarmed me. In another edit the user said the following[[64]]: "...Both are accused of ongoing war crimes whereas France and those other countries you keep pretending like this compares to is not. Sorry, but no I do not need to accept your chosen framing in which you can fill the lead of Hamas with all sorts of hysteria..." From this and other edits arouse the feeling of the inability for I and other users that do not think the same as Nableezy to cooperate since Nableezy's communications were negative in their style and tone were derogatory. I have also seen Nableezy react in a way that can be insulting and also shows behavior that seems unaccepting and seems to show a mentality that does not accept cooperating with users that think differently (in his responses to BilledMammal)[[65]]. "So you’re saying the UN secretary general said there is no bias? Cool cool. The section you linked to is filled with garbage sources like UN Watch, and you want to pretend like it should be treated as objective fact. Again, gaslighting, the abuser claims to be the victim to make you disbelieve anything said against them. Next you’ll tell me Btselem is antisemitic too." "The only people claiming a bias against Israel are highly partisan sources. It is gaslighting, an attempt to shield criticism by claiming to be the victim" I've also seen Nableezy interact with other users in a way which is at minimum disrespectful. Overall from very early on I have felt insulted and attacked by Nableezy at times resulting in a personal attack on me as a person. Over time this behavior seems to have worsened. There's no doubt Nableezy is a significant contributor to Wikipedia and has spent extraordinary amounts of time working on the encyclopedia. Perhaps it is really best for a 3 month cooling period so that the user can contribute with freshened mentality and politeness. Homerethegreat (talk) 16:30, 28 December 2023 (UTC) Statement by Eladkarmel[edit]I have known Nableezy for several years now. There is no doubt that this is an editor who invested a lot of effort and time in Wikipedia and has good contributions, but I also saw that this is a person who knows how to get stressed and behave aggressively towards other editors. I think his assault on Dovidroth was really the straw that broke the camel's back. I have also seen the attacks on Homerethegreat and BilledMammal and I think this is also very, very problematic behavior and not what I would expect from other editors. I'm sorry that such a long-time editor behaves like this. I hope that a certain period of editing on other topics will help him calm down and also remember that in the end, real life is just as beautiful as Wikipedia. Eladkarmel (talk) 18:44, 28 December 2023 (UTC) Statement by Kire1975[edit]There is evidence of tag teaming, edit warring, WP:HOSTAGE taking and WP:SEALIONING by Homerethegreat. There are already two discussions about this subject open on the ANI noticeboard here and the NPOV noticeboard here. Kire1975 (talk) 18:20, 28 December 2023 (UTC) Statement by Zero0000[edit]Anyone who is not upset by the current war in the Middle East has a heart of stone. It is simply not humanly possible to cover it on wikipedia without a lot of argument, pushing of competing narratives, and occasional incivility. Instead of punishing editors who use a rude word now and then, we should acknowledge editors who honestly strive to maintain a high article standard. Nableezy is one of the leading lights in that respect, in line with his long eminent career here. Concerning his recent behavior, I refer to Levivich's answer with which I concur: between the warning and the TBAN, Nableezy's behavior was exemplary and there was no cause to escalate the warning to a TBAN. Zerotalk 02:19, 29 December 2023 (UTC) ScottishFinnishRadish chose to highlight a Dec 20 exchange by bolding it. Actually, this example shows Nableezy being collegiate. Arminden is an excellent editor and both Nableezy and I have a lot of respect for his work here. I believe that respect is mutual. So when Arminden steps out of line, we don't rush to a noticeboard to get him banned, but instead we rush to his talk page to ask him to cool it. You can see from Nableezy's final "Take care" that his words are intended as friendly advice, tough love if you will. Nableezy and Arminden are not editing opponents except in rare moments. I also thought that Arminden needed strong advice just then, and my own admonition less than an hour later is here. Arminden's response to the advice is here. Zerotalk 06:37, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Arminden[edit]I'm trying to stay out of these "trials by Wiki", even my own, and don't understand the lingo and system. I hope my entry is read, and not just as a reply to Zero: I'm hanging it in here because I fully agree with Zero. Don't know what block you're about to slap on Nableezy, but I don't think it would be productive. I appreciate his civility, especially as I'm considering myself to be someone who, like Nableezy, is trying to be rational & balanced on the I/P conflict (and escape it whenever possible). Still, I end up being more benevolent towards the concept of Israel and more critical of incessant pro-Palestinian Wiki activism than others (w/o any sympathy for Israeli one either), so often not on the same side as Nableezy. I'd much rather have him around than miss him. Read the last bit and toss the rest. Arminden (talk) 22:41, 30 December 2023 (UTC) Statement by (involved editor 2)[edit]Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Nableezy[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Drmies[edit]I don't wish to speak/act like an administrator here, but I do have two cents' worth. First, I understand SFR's verdict, but second, I believe that Nableezy was by no means the worst in these exchanges, and their tone was more of exasperation than of a battleground mentality. Both sides were not totally equal here, and I think the project would benefit from having Nableezy back in the game. It would be very nice if we had more uninvolved editors and admins active in these areas who could speak words of warning before things get out of hand between editors. Drmies (talk) 22:48, 27 December 2023 (UTC) Statement by Volunteer Marek[edit]Ah yes. “pattern of editing”. It’s one of those amorphous, ethereal, vague pretexts that are actually an admission of “I don’t really have any real diffs but I need to manufacture a reason here”. Especially when the diffs that are provided are such weak milquetoast as this. Some people see patterns - dragons, turtles, Jesus himself - in the clouds, others just see white fluff. Usually the “white fluff” people are right. The above applies to not just Nableezy but a few others that caught a sanction here. All of these, with one possible exception, should be rescinded. Volunteer Marek 23:46, 27 December 2023 (UTC) Statement by Sluzzelin[edit]I wouldn't word it the way Volunteer Marek did, and I don't think ScottishFinnishRadish is seeing Jesus in the clouds ... yet I agree with Volunteer Marek that these topic bans should be rescinded. Everyone's exasperated regarding the war, and it's impossible not to feel exasperated when reading the talk pages of most articles about the war. These are editors, however, who do try very hard to follow reliable sources, policies, and to avoid personalizing their comments or making forum-type contributions. I think en.wp needs to endure the possibility of occasional over-the-top escalations in this heated area, and manage them case by case. I certainly find the duration of the topic bans far too long. In my view, there also appears to be an intention of even-handedness in the making of these bans, and therefore I ask for all of them to be cancelled. Peace. ---Sluzzelin talk 00:19, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Objective3000[edit]AMPOL is a picnic on a perfect, spring day compared to A-I. Nableezy has 52,000 edits, many in CTOP areas, without a block in a dozen years. It’s difficult to see a recurring pattern here. The constant influx of POV editors, many SPA, in the most C of CTOPs is going to result in moments of exasperation. From a purely technical POV, I don’t think SFR was out of line and I am delighted that some admins spend some time where angels fear to tread. But Nableezy is not the cause of the problems in A-I and his presence is valuable in keeping these articles within the boundaries of Wikipedia guidelines. This will always ruffle feathers as many editors in such topics put their personal beliefs over our guidelines. Nableezy’s responses here may sound defensive and defensive sounding appeals don’t go over well on this page. But I would sound defensive in this case also. In my mind, the best result is quick termination of the sanction. O3000, Ret. (talk) 15:02, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
Statement by My very best wishes[edit]Nableezy is a reasonable contributor capable of admitting their mistakes, even though my interactions with him were unpleasant [67]. I should admit such interactions convinced me not to edit the most contentious pages in this subject area, such as 2023 Israel–Hamas war. My very best wishes (talk) 17:10, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Levivich[edit]I read all 28, and 27 of them are 100% unproblematic in my view. The only one that is a little bit problematic is this edit summary, which in full is: The TBAN notification (linked above) cited three post-warning edits: 22:14, 25 December 2023 (in which Nableezy apologizes for the "grammar is trash" comment I do not see any grounds for a TBAN in these 28 post-warning edits. If anything, the edits show that Nableezy heeded the warning; the one time he said something slightly unkind, he later apologized for it. The other 27 edits are Nableezy civilly and productively discussing content and policy issues in this topic area. I would go so far as to say that 27 out of the 28 edits show model behavior. The warning worked, so the TBAN is unnecessary to prevent disruption, and not having Nableezy edit in the topic area will make the topic area worse, not better. The TBAN should be overturned. Levivich (talk) 18:22, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Mistamystery (in response to Kire1975)[edit]Sorry - what does this have to do with Nableezy? I see that you yourself initiated one of the discussions you link to above. It appears you are only commenting on this page because @Homerethegreat commented here and you followed his edits - not because of the arbitration action at hand. Please take care not to engage in actions that may be perceived as WP:HOUNDING, WP:CANVASS, and WP:INAPPNOTE. Unless you have edits to make to your comment that are directly in regard to nableezy's appeal (or any of the other editors involved in the recent topic ban - of which the user you are referring to is not one of them), I respectfully recommend striking through or removing your above comment. Mistamystery (talk) 00:09, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Crampcomes[edit]Sanctioning Nableezy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for 90 days for such trivial matters at a time when there's an ongoing Israel-Hamas war will do more damage to Wikipedia than good. Nableezy has been contributing to Israel-Hamas related articles in Wikipedia for years and is therefore one of the more knowledgeable editors with regard to Israel-Hamas related articles in Wikipedia, and he's also well-versed with regard to Wikipedia rules and policies. 2023 Israel–Hamas war is an ongoing war and as such the article is evolving very fast. There are a bunch of pro-Palestinian and pro-Israeli editors trying to add content that do not comply with Wikipedia rules. As evident from the Talk:2023 Israel–Hamas war, Nableezy has been one of the few editors who has been trying hard to keep the article balanced, neutral as well as in compliance with the Wikipedia policies. His absence from the currently fast-evolving 2023 Israel–Hamas war article and other related articles for 90 days will do way more damage to Wikipedia than good. Thank you and best regards.Crampcomes (talk) 16:13, 30 December 2023 (UTC) Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)[edit]Result of the appeal by Nableezy[edit]
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Mr Miles
[edit]| Blocked indefinitely by Isabelle Belato for topic-ban violations and personal attacks. – bradv 18:09, 3 January 2024 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Mr Miles[edit]
Not applicable
Fairly straight-forward GENSEX TBan violation. User had not edited since before TBan was installed, before editing talk page of a GENSEX contentious topic today.
Discussion concerning Mr Miles[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Mr Miles[edit]Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Mr Miles[edit]
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by dovidroth
[edit]| There's no support for this appeal, and since dovidroth is facing a site ban at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Motions#Dovidroth, this appeal is likely to be mooted by Arbcom. Galobtter (talk) 00:12, 5 January 2024 (UTC) |
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Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by dovidroth[edit]I appreciate @ScottishFinnishRadish trying to control the subject area. However, I feel that the topic ban opposed on me is too extreme. The first edit cited on my ban was a discussion as to whether I exercised a "failure to exercise independent judgment in ... restorations", and I don't see how it relates to WP:Battleground at all. You indeed warned me with the second edit, and I immediately apologized and explained that the edit summary had been intended in response to another edit summary, but I admitted that my words were poorly chosen. This edit and this edit were in response to a specific user who was accusing me of doing various things, and I tried to defend myself. I will admit that I may have gone a little too far in responding to their complaints and I should have let the admins deal with it. I will try to be more mindful of this in the future. Lastly, I do not understand how this edit and this edit qualify as battleground. In the first edit, I simply confronted a user that they did not need to remove the link but should have simply changed the link to the current title of the article. And the second edit was a simple revert that I said that I was reverting undiscussed POV. I admit that there are things that I can improve on, and I will try to be mindful of these things moving forwardm, but I still think a 90 day topic ban is too severe. I have showed my commitment to building an encyclopedia having continued editing in non-ARBPIA topics since the ban. I would ideally like it to be lifted entirely, although I would also think it reasonable for it being shorted to 30 days - as it has been for another editor - and I would continue to edit in other topic until then.
Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish[edit]Statement by Vice_regent[edit]TLDR: in my recent experience, Dovidroth (and others) used a combination of edit-warring and bad RFC-ing to attempt ram through text that had core policy (WP:NOR and WP:NPOV) violations. Full details:
VR talk 05:49, 2 January 2024 (UTC) Statement by Zero0000[edit]Both Markowitz and Homethegreat claim that Dovidroth has been targeted because he is a librarian at the National Library of Israel, but neither of them have provided evidence for that assertion. The only relevant diff is the reasonable query at ARCA of whether this comes under COIPOLITICAL. Homethegreat even claims that query was made in bad faith, which is a personal attack on the editor who asked the question. Zerotalk 12:24, 2 January 2024 (UTC) I also wonder why both Markowitz and Homethegreat have made their comments in the "uninvolved" section of this case. Both of them are heavily involved in these topics. Zerotalk 12:26, 2 January 2024 (UTC) The case at ARCA was not an "arbitration complaint" but a request for clarification of the rules. Although it went the way I would have expected, it was not an unreasonable request and accusing the filing editor of bad faith is an obvious violation of NPA. Zerotalk 02:18, 3 January 2024 (UTC) Statement by Marokwitz[edit]I propose the removal of the topic ban placed on User:Dovidroth, considering the context and his overall contributions to Wikipedia. Firstly, Dovidroth's track record as an editor is commendable. He has made significant contributions to non-controversial topics, such as creating and expanding articles like Elazar Mayer Preil, Fast of Behav, Shene Zetim, Yom le-yabbashah, and Pinchas Mordechai Teitz. These articles demonstrate he is here to build an encyclopedia, while aligning with our core principle. Secondly, it's important to recognize the human aspect in the dynamics of Wikipedia editing. The recent personal attacks and aspersions cast against Dovidroth by multiple editors, and the fact that he has been personally targeted based on his disclosure that he is an Israeli librarian, need to be considered. It's understandable that, under such pressure and during personally challenging times, Dovidroth's responses has deviated from the ideal. However, I think a 90-day topic ban is too harsh, especially considering his acknowledgment of the situation, the subsequent apology, and the promise to do better. Thirdly, we must consider the issue of fairness and consistency in the application of Wikipedia's policies. Recently, we have seen instances involving User:Nableezy, making unfounded accusations against Dovidroth, for which Nableezy was duly warned, making snide remarks, and using very aggressive language in describing other editors' work. Despite these issues, the well-known editor Nableezy has been given what can be seen as "celebrity treatment" with his topic ban shortened despite not promising to improve his ways. Comparatively, Dovidroth's edits and interactions are much less combative, and his acknowledgement of his mistakes genuine. If the appeal is not accepted this disparity will raise questions regarding the equitable enforcement of Wikipedia's policies. Given these points, and in the spirit of WP:FORGIVE, which encourages giving editors opportunities to improve and learn from their mistakes, I believe Dovidroth deserves a chance. The essence of Wikipedia is collaboration and improvement, and maintaining the topic ban on Dovidroth, in this case, seems counterproductive to these goals. In conclusion, considering Dovidroth's valuable contributions and his willingness to acknowledge and rectify his mistakes, I would like to support the appeal . Marokwitz (talk) 07:13, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Homerethegreat[edit]I will begin by thanking SFR, the admin who has taken a significant amount of precious time to monitor an environment that has become very hostile in the past three months. I’ve personally seen the admin remove what may be considered Hate Speech, which I commend. Dovidroth unlike others publicly presents that the user is from Israel and not just that but also from the National Library of Israel. These, I think have brought about to him unusual amount of targeting and accusations at times fairly at others unfairly and without goodfaith [[85]],[[86]] , [[87]] , [[88]] . From a look on the user’s history it seems that Dovidorth’s contributions are far richer and beyond the conflict, touching on themes that are not adequately presented in the encyclopedia, specifically regarding Jewish traditions and music. I agree that this diff [[89]] is completely out of taste and unacceptable and very unlike the editor which I actually usually see fostering cooperation, writing amicably, and admitting mistakes and apologizing. Overall I think given the hostile environment a break could help the user but I think it should not be so long. I hope more admins can get involved and protect users especially users from a National Library and one that is personally affected by the war, brave enough to admit to be Israeli and at times is targeted based on the user's identity.
Statement by Coretheapple[edit]Looking through the diffs cited above, I see responses to talk page posts that he should have ignored or, if he thought it actionable, brought to an administrator or AE. No, issuing template warnings to editors in this subject area is usually counterproductive and a waste of time, for instance. The editing environment in the I/P pages is extremely hostile, the hottest and most unpleasant I have ever encountered, and I personally have blundered badly. Editors are well-advised to take breaks, for hours, days or permanently. In this case, I think a 90-day ban from the entire topic area is excessive for an editor who is otherwise a good contributior to the project. I've never interacted with him one way or the other, but apparently he is a librarian with good access to source materials and basically a positive to the subject area. I think lifting this Tban, or perhaps reducing it to 30 days as was just done to another editor, would be warranted. Coretheapple (talk) 16:07, 3 January 2024 (UTC) Not sure I'm "involved" but putting my statement here in an abundance of caution. Coretheapple (talk) 18:35, 3 January 2024 (UTC) Statement by IOHANNVSVERVS[edit]Dovidroth, Marokwitz and Homerethegreat appear to have engaged in tag teaming at Genocides in history (1946 to 1999), where the entire section of "Palestinian Exodus (Nakba)" was removed without consensus and despite numerous objections. An editor opened a discussion on the talk page of the article, saying "The section on Palestinians has been repeatedly edit-warred out of the article by Dovidroth" [94]. Marokwitz and Homerethegreat then joined the discussion, having never before edited the article or its talk page, where they both agreed with and supported Dovidroth. Dovidroth and Homerethegreat then reverted editors who tried to restore the content on the page. The content remains scrubbed from the page as of today (Jan 4 2024) since Dec 16 2023. I've reported Homerethegreat and Marokwitz for "Biased editing on contentious topics" here [95] and I believe that all three users (Dovidroth, Homerethegreat and Marokwitz) are bad faith actors. I would hate to see these users be allowed to continue to be disruptive and to waste the time of other editors and administrators. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 17:53, 4 January 2024 (UTC) Statement by (involved editor 2)[edit]Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by dovidroth[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Mistamystery[edit]As this was a joint TBAN action on three involved editors surrounding connected incidents, and one of the editors has already successfully appealed for a shorter ban based on the enforcing admin agreeing the punishment was too harsh for the offense, I think very simply the sentences should be revised accordingly to the other two editors involved who recieved the same punishment. To use the appeal process to apply different punishments to editors for the same "crime" only based on individual appeal would be inappropriate. Each of the editors involved have both crossed the line, as well as have been known for solid contribution. 30 days for all and let's move on. Mistamystery (talk) 19:21, 4 January 2024 (UTC) Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)[edit]Result of the appeal by dovidroth[edit]
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Toa Nidhiki05
[edit]| Toa Nidhiki05's topic-ban from American Politics is replaced with a topic-ban from BLPs related to post-1992 American politics, broadly construed. Vanamonde93 (talk) 13:38, 7 January 2024 (UTC) |
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Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by Toa Nidhiki05[edit]This is my second appeal of this sanction; the last was over six months ago. Like I said then, I believe my behavior that led to the sanction was embarrassing and not befitting of what productive behavior in the topic area looks like. We can all agree, I think, that AP2 doesn't need that sort of behavior, and while I don't believe I was the only one at fault in the dispute, my behavior is the only thing that I can control. Since the topic ban a year ago, I've avoided disruptive behavior and have focused on productive editing, including routine cleanup of articles but also full-scale rewrites of articles like NFL Europe and Plastic Love. I've also worked productively on the BLP Huey Long, where I productively helped work on resolving conflicts and reaching consensus. This would be the approach I would take going forward in the AP2 area if this topic ban were to be lifted. I do feel like I have made valuable contributions in this area and the encyclopedia as a whole, and I'd love to be able to contribute productively to AP2 in the future. Like I've said previously - I would be more than open to alternatives that allow me to engage productively in this area. If a full lifting of the sanction isn't something you're willing to consider, I'd be more than open to something like a 1RR restriction that would allow me to productively contribute again. Toa Nidhiki05 16:31, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Guerillero[edit]I don't have an objection to Vanamonde's narrowing of the topic ban --In actu (Guerillero) Parlez Moi 11:04, 2 January 2024 (UTC) Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Toa Nidhiki05[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by GoodDay[edit]An editor deserves a chance to prove themselves. Toa' t-ban shouldn't continue if they've promised to not be disruptive in future in that area & hasn't been disruptive in other areas. We must ask ourselves, at what point does a preventative measure morph into a punitive measure. GoodDay (talk) 16:40, 31 December 2023 (UTC) Statement by Zaathras[edit]As someone who had tussled with the filer here and there, e.g. Talk:Ilhan Omar, FWIW I say loosen the restrictions a bit. In the past they may have gotten a little too passionate about things when consensus for edits failed, but always seemed to be aimed overall at encyclopedic improvement. Rather than being a keyboard warrior here for a cause, like others have been. I think they can be productive again. Zaathras (talk) 14:49, 1 January 2024 (UTC) Statement by starship.paint[edit]@Toa Nidhiki05: At your previous appeal I raised the example where you rejected a reliable source's quote of a judge in the judge's legal decision by arguing, without supporting evidence, that the judge was merely being "courteous". Can you commit to avoid repeating such behaviour, and not reject content from reliable sources based solely on your own opinion, instead relying on other reliable sources? starship.paint (RUN) 11:08, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)[edit]Result of the appeal by Toa Nidhiki05[edit]
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Marcelus
[edit]| No action, the matter is a content dispute and no restrictions were violated. The parties are advised to use dispute resolution if discussion cannot lead to agreement. Seraphimblade Talk to me 16:34, 9 January 2024 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Marcelus[edit]
Hello, I noticed that last year User:Marcelus was sanctioned with a 0RR restriction in Eastern Europe topic area and was previously blocked for edit warring and violating 1RR restriction. On 29 November 2023 Marcelus successfully appealed his 0RR restriction and 1RR restriction was again applied to him. What is concerning is that factually Marcelus with his 2 January 2024 edit arbitrarily completely reverted content which was fairly recently added by another user with 8 November 2023 edit in a contentious topics procedure article (Eastern Europe area). It is noteworthy that no consensus was reached to edit or remove this content in talk page discussion (where Marcelus and I participated), but by ignoring this Marcelus still made this non-consensual edit (revert) despite his history of disruptive reverting and multiple sanctioning for that in Eastern Europe topic area. I think such editing style by Marcelus can be disruptive in this contentious topic area, especially knowing his editing history and multiple sanctions for reverting other users content in this topic area. I believe that user with such sanctioning history should willingly seek consensus and not edit (revert) discussed content arbitrarily how he personally want.--Ed1974LT (talk) 13:14, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMarcelus&diff=1194145114&oldid=1191571124 Discussion concerning Marcelus[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Marcelus[edit]8 Nov edit is WP:SYNTH. The source referenced ([98]) mentions nothing about Báthory's "inauguration" as Grand Duke, instead it mentions that the four GDL senators wanted a separate act of inauguration during the negotiations before the conclusion of the Union of Lublin (1569 vs 1580). So the conclusion that the Báthory's ceremony of May 29, 1580 coincided with these attempts is OR. No source connects these two facts or make such implication. Comment: In general, the very idea that there was a separate inauguration of the Grand Duke in 1580 in Vilnius is WP:FRINGE. It is actually only mentioned on the website of the Vilnius palace in its description of the exhibition of the jewels of the royal treasury at Wawel Castle in Kraków ([99]]). If historians actually believed that this happened it would be an extremely important event, which would be mentioned in every book on the history of Poland, Lithuania or the Republic. In fact, what took place then was the ceremonial handing over of the papal blessed sword and hat, which had traditionally been given to basically every ruler of Poland, to Stephen Báthory going to war with Moscow. Antemurale Christianitatis etc. And the sword itself was given through the efforts of Polish senator Paweł Uchański and not the Lithuanian lords.Marcelus (talk) 13:13, 7 January 2024 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Marcelus[edit]
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